‘We were solving our consumer needs 128 years ago and are still doing it’
In this week’s CX Network podcast interview, the Vice President Sourcing of Carhartt discusses creating experiences for their ‘amazingly loyal’ customers.
Peter Paluzi is the Vice President Sourcing at Carhartt. He joins host Seth Adler in this week’s CX Podcast Theatre interview to explain that the bond between his brand and the customer was forged by Hamilton Carhartt supplying the need of the railroad worker.
Paluzi is a self described manufacturing guy who’s had experience on the plant floor all the way through the executive office. He shares his vantage point going from LLBean to Timberland to Hanes to Jockey, seeing the control of the industry going from brands in the 70’s and 80’s giving way to the retailer in the 90’s, and finally to the customer today. He explains that his brand is aligned with the consumer first.
He also discusses living in a silo doesn’t work any more as it’s all about on time delivery, flexibly, variety, choice, the experience, the service and more.
“I started out on the factory floor. It was 'tell me what you want me to make and I'll make it.' Now it's about flexibility, variety, choice... the experience.”
Seth Adler: From Carhartt, Peter Paluzi joins us. First some supporters to thank and thank you for listening. This episode is supported by CX Network. CX Network provides expert commentary tools and resources developed by customer experienced professionals and industry insiders, with a growing membership and global portfolio of events, CX Network ensures you keep your finger on the pulse, by delivering practical and strategic advice to help achieve your business goals. Wherever you are on your customer strategy journey, join the CX Network's global community today. Go to www.cxnetwork.com for more.
This episode is also supported by the Chief Customer Officer Exchange; CCOE discusses approaches on driving a profitable customer strategy at all levels of the enterprise. Join the only event focused on bringing together innovative cross-industry chief customer officers, November fifth through the seventh in Miami, Florida. Benchmark on improving customer experience, establishing customer centric strategies and producing more valuable customer insights, go to ccoexchange.iqpc.com for more.
Peter Paluzi joins us explaining that the bond between his brand and customer was forged by Hamilton Carhartt, supplying the need of the railroad worker. Peter is a self-described manufacturing guy, whose had experience on the plant floor, all the way through the executive office. He shares his vantage point going from L.L.Bean to Timberland to Hanes to Jockey. Seeing the control of the industry going from brands in the 70s and 80s giving way to the retailer in the 90s and finally the customer today.
He explains that his brand is aligned with the customer first. Peter discusses living in a silo doesn't work anymore and it's all about on time delivery, flexibility, variety choice, the experience, the service and more. Welcome to CX Network on B2B IQ, I'm your host Seth Adler.
Download episodes on www.cxnetwork.com or through our app in iTunes within the iTunes podcast app and Google Play or wherever you currently get your podcasts. Peter Paluzi.
Peter Paluzi: P as in Paul, A-L-U-Z-I Peter Paluzi, Carhartt Inc.
Seth Adler: All right so when Lollapalooza came out, was there a whole bunch of conversation around? Did you have something to do with this?
Peter Paluzi: You know, the Lollapalooza was more of my son's generation.
Seth Adler: Of course.
Peter Paluzi: He took a lot of ribbon about it. He didn't and he did it in good spirits and I was oblivious to what Lollapalooza was. I'm more of the Van Halen generation than the-
Seth Adler: There you go.
Peter Paluzi: lollapalooza.
Seth Adler: Absolutely.
Peter Paluzi: My son was in high school and he got a lot of hey, I saw you in Denver.
Seth Adler: As far as Van Halen you remember running with the devil and things like this right?
Peter Paluzi: There you go.
Seth Adler: You might as well jump-
Peter Paluzi: Now you're in my generation.
Seth Adler: Might as well jump right? Peter, Carhartt 130 year old brand, so much passion. I mean you've got a consumer base that knows your brand, it's their brand, is that fair to say?
Peter Paluzi: It is. I mean we have an amazing customer loyalty to our brand. We have a wonderful brand and we live our brand. I'm not dressing it today because I had to dress up a bit, but if you'd have seen me yesterday I was head to toe, so I'm a consumer as well.
Seth Adler: As far as... So there's 130 years to talk about, obviously we can't do that. When though, being inside, when was that relationship created and then it's nearly solidified, obviously you guys have to keep up and you have to keep delivering, but when do you think that kind of unique relationship between brand and consumer was forged?
Peter Paluzi: I would encourage you to look at some of our marketing that's online. We have some great videos, our marketing group is incredible with understanding the brand and it goes all the way back to Hamilton Carhartt and supplying the need of the railroad worker and recognizing ...
You know, it's funny that as I go through this presentation and these conversations, I see that we talk about understanding the consumer and understanding the customer, but we were doing that 130 years ago and we were selling their needs. Coming into the company nine years ago, I knew of the company, I wasn't a consumer back then, but I knew of the company. I knew the reputation because when you're in the same industry you get to know, who are the good ones and who aren't and Carhartt-
Seth Adler: Right, who knows what they're doing type of thing.
Peter Paluzi: Also who treats their vendors right. Who lives the brand? And Carhartt has had and still does have a good reputation. Now that I am enfolded in and included in the Carhartt reputation, it's amazing. We were solving our consumer needs 128 years ago and still are doing it. That slide that I put up there, that talked about our consumer, Hamilton could have written that slide.
Seth Adler: There you go. Folks that are listening that won't have the benefit of the slide, but can you give us a quick overview so folks listening can kind of understand.
Peter Paluzi: Sure, of course. I mean the industry as a whole and not just Carhartt, but the industry as a whole is understanding that the consumer is king. I think in the 90s we were recognizing that the fact that the retailers pretty much controlled the market. Then in 70s and 80s when I started in it, it was the wholesalers, it was the brands, then the retailers took it over in the 90s. They started consolidating, they had the power, they introduced private labels.
Now, it's the consumer and it should have always been the consumer to be honest with you. The consumer has the choices and the advent of these contraptions we all carry around with us, and our children and our children, children going up on it, they just intuitively know where to go and where to buy and how much to pay and they just won't put up with half-hearted effort. We are aligned in our organization, with the consumer first. I don't want to say it's just Carhartt, it's really the apparel industry is having to recognize that.
Seth Adler: Sure of course. You say with nine years of history and then you did just give us a brief history of who has the power, so you kind of in your history with Carhartt, went from manufacturing having it, to retailer, to consumer, right there under one roof. What has changed about how you operate inside if anything? Because you also said, we could have had the same, I could be doing the same thing as 128 years ago. What has changed over the last nine years in relation to brand and customer?
Peter Paluzi: I can tell you that again, within my experience I've worked at L.L.Bean and Timberland Company and they were manufacturers in their own right. Hanesbrands and Jockey and they were manufacturers and I tend to gravitate to that type of organization. When I started out in manufacturing and I started out on the factory floor and I used to service from factories, the demands that were on us, there was a much more divide. It wasn't intentional, it wasn't, but it was tell me what you want me to make and I'll make it. I'm a manufacturer, make up your mind.
Seth Adler: I'm happy here in my silo right?
Peter Paluzi: I'm happy here in my silo, right. You asked for 10,000 I'm giving you 10,000 what's the big deal? I'm a week late. Why are you making such a big deal out of it?
Seth Adler: Come on.
Peter Paluzi: It was about manufacturing and if you would change this fabric, if you would change this stitch, if you would change this pocket, we could save 10 cents. So much of as operation folks were driven towards that type of efficiency. Well, the evolution and I've been through it with other companies is well, if you produce 10,000 garments on time and they don't sell, what have you produced? It's about understanding, what is it really that the customers are demanding and the consumer. Its on time delivery, its flexibility, it's variety, it's choice, it's the experience, it's the service; it's more than that. Even an old sourcing dog like me understands that living in a silo doesn't work.
Seth Adler: Not going to work anymore. You're saying an old sourcing dog, let's get some history, where are you from?
Peter Paluzi: I grew up mostly in El Paso Texas. When we moved to El Paso Texas as a family in the 70s there was more and I don't want to be quoted on this because I'm sure I'm making it up. There were more jeans made in El Paso Texas than the rest of the world combined.
Seth Adler: With the exception of Oshkosh Wisconsin maybe?
Peter Paluzi: Maybe Oshkosh, but those were smaller.
Seth Adler: Sure those were tiny.
Peter Paluzi: I'm not even sure if Oshkosh was a national brand.
Seth Adler: Was around.
Peter Paluzi: Well, they were around, but I don't know how big they were back then. We were Billy The Kid. My father was with Billy Kid, which was a similar Oshkosh type brand. We moved to El Paso Texas, when I was in grade school and he was working in the manufacturing industry and had factories throughout southwest Texas, New Mexico. Then he branched out and opened some of his own factories; we had a factory in El Paso. You know, I went back and forth between college and worked in the factory. Then in my early 30s when I got married I just went full-time into the factory and I've been somehow associated with manufacturing ever since.
Seth Adler: Ever since. You gave us kind of an idea of what the factory floor was like when you were a young guy. After you went to school, where did you go to school?
Peter Paluzi: I went to Coronado High School and then went to New Mexico State University.
Seth Adler: New Mexico State all right.
Peter Paluzi: State University and then I finished up online as an adult.
Seth Adler: Look at you.
Peter Paluzi: I was back and forth ... Yeah.
Seth Adler: You're like one of the new ones right?
Peter Paluzi: I am one of the new ones right?
Seth Adler: When you ... After you got married and got back into the shop floor there, I would imagine basically at least a five or a 10 year kind of gap there, what had changed at that point and what year was that?
Peter Paluzi: Let's see when was that? I got married in '87, I had been working on and off doing time studies and things like that. I had worked in a high school. There wasn't a lot of change I'll be honest with you. The 80s were about-
Seth Adler: Consistency.
Peter Paluzi: Pilot high and let it fly. It was about consistency. Manufacturing, you know, the basics of manufacturing and production are still true today as they were 100 years ago.
Seth Adler: First in first out.
Peter Paluzi: I mean ... Right manufacturers like continuity and consistency, they like long runs. The efficiency that Henry Ford recognized, any color you want as long as its black type of make no changes, it's still true in manufacturing, it just it is an opposition of where we are as a brand.
Seth Adler: When you say opposition what do you mean?
Peter Paluzi: Well, because if you're ... We talked about it earlier, if you're in the oblivious world of just keep it going and the consumer's moved on to something else-
Seth Adler: Pilot high let it fly right?
Peter Paluzi: Pilot high let if fly. If the consumers ... There's an interesting example that I use. Back in the early part of the wholesale brands we were in the town with Hagger. Now Hagger was really ... I'm sorry not really Hagger. We were there with Hagger but Farah if you remember farer-
Seth Adler: I remember Hagger slacks or whatever.
Peter Paluzi: Yeah, Hagger was southern Texas, but we were with Farah in El Paso and Farer manufacturing was a similar product to Hagger and huge at the time, just huge in the 70s. They has the largest manufacturing facility I've ever seen in my life in El Paso Texas it's now a mall by the way.
Seth Adler: To give you an idea of the square footage right there.
Peter Paluzi: Its over a million square feet. It's now a big shopping center and all that. It was Willy Farah for those of us that remember the Farah slacks, Willy Farah was a manufacturing genius at the time. He was coming up with ways of producing that we didn't even know of.
Seth Adler: Such as? Give us an idea of the innovations.
Peter Paluzi: Well, a lot of ... We are a labor intensive industry. It is about every piece of goods, every seam is handled by someone. The work aids, the automation he would put in, the way he set up his lines, he had a machine that would build his own equipment so that, figuring out ways of surging the side seams better, than anybody else or join parts together faster than the rest of the industry and he wouldn't let people in to walk his floor.
Seth Adler: Would not.
Peter Paluzi: He was very protective.
Seth Adler: No, that's IP right there.
Peter Paluzi: That's IP that's the early stages of IP. He was very good and he was really good at manufacturing. Well, where is Farah slacks now? Because he was great at innovating manufacturing, but he didn't keep up with the consumer. He would build a product back in the day, 60s and 70s, he would build a product and then he would take it to his retailers and says, "Here's my line. What do you want to buy? Here's my line." Somewhere a long the line the retailers went, no.
Seth Adler: Not so much.
Peter Paluzi: Not so much and so-
Seth Adler: We're kind of having a little bit more of a broad based discussion, which I think works as far as retail kind of taking over, that the power from the manufacturer, some of that had to do with Walmart, kind of figuring that out.
Peter Paluzi: I would believe so.
Seth Adler: From inside, you're a manufacturing guy.
Peter Paluzi: Yes.
Seth Adler: When did you start to see that happening, how did it happen from the inside?
Peter Paluzi: Well, in the late 80s and again you might want to fact check some of this.
Seth Adler: That's fine.
Peter Paluzi: In the late 80s early 90s-
Seth Adler: I'm going to leave that alone by the way, as far as discussing facts, so we'll just move on.
Peter Paluzi: You know, I try to avoid facts as much as possible.
Seth Adler: Well, sure.
Peter Paluzi: I find it easier, so as somewhere in the late 80s early 90s of my career there became a consolidation at the retail level. [inaudible] started buying up, the shoppers choices really started to shrink. They started introducing, the retailer started introducing their own labels. Private label, when I started I didn't even know what private label was. Lord forbid, there wasn't Google so if you didn't know what it was you were pretty much just stuck.
Seth Adler: That's right, you didn't know what it was and that was that.
Peter Paluzi: If you didn't know what it was well too bad. Private label, which private label-
Seth Adler: Call someone on your Rotary Phone about it right?
Peter Paluzi: Exactly, talk to them at the bar at night. Private label of course is where a retailer puts in product that they own the brand. They not only enjoy the full mark-up, but they can also be very responsive to the market. Now, whether or not it started it as a way of being responsive to market, I'm not sure, but they learned very quickly that they could read the trends faster than anybody else because they got the front line to the consumer and they were able to react quickly, whether it was special washes on jeans or new marketing. When the private labels and the consolidation happened, the brands, which I was at the time I was manufacturing for some of the brands, Wranglers, VF, the brands realized in order to get to the consumer they had to go through the customer and the customer were retailers and the retailers told you, this is what I'll buy, this is how much I'll pay and this is who your competition is. You counter that by having a really strong brand, but even then, consumers don't have as many choices back then.
Seth Adler: You're basically describing my high school years when I used to go to the mall and there were my choices and that was that. This is before and now both of us sound ancient, but this is before E-Commerce and all that; like you said Google. With digitization coming in with not necessarily E-Commerce, but once choice started to open up to the consumer, take us through again from the manufacturers' perspective, when you saw that power go from the retailer to the consumer because it's happened, it's now done, but take us through that iteration.
Peter Paluzi: You know you are exactly on the head. We must have been ... I think the generations that were shopping before the web, which we are not the same generation but we are pre-web.
Seth Adler: We're close enough for anybody that's 25 listening right?
Peter Paluzi: There you go right. Anybody that was shopping before pre-web you went into the store and you said do you have this? I was ... I'm 6'3 and I was always 6'3 so they never had my length. I would ask the store, when are you going to get 34s and these Levi's-
Seth Adler: Couple of weeks.
Peter Paluzi: We'll call. Well, here's my number please call me and you pretty much bought what they had or you didn't buy it. It in someways made it easier because first day of school everybody looked the same.
Seth Adler: That's right.
Peter Paluzi: Then on the other side if the store didn't have it well you didn't have any choices. The retailers truly in my mind, owned the interaction with the consumer because what were you and I going to do?
Seth Adler: Not much.
Peter Paluzi: Drive to Dallas? I mean you were there.
Seth Adler: Probably not.
Peter Paluzi: As soon as that opened up with web and I can't think of a technology that brought more to the consumer experience than the internet. Maybe you can differ on that, but I can't think of anything.
Seth Adler: I'm not going to argue.
Peter Paluzi: As you're walking out the store you're looking it up on the internet.
Seth Adler: There you go.
Peter Paluzi: Matter of fact in some cases before you get home, it's already being shipped to you.
Seth Adler: That's you-
Peter Paluzi: That's the power shift.
Seth Adler: Absolutely and that's you and me as a consumer. You're there on the shop floor and I'm exaggerating, not so much anymore, but-
Peter Paluzi: Well I still spend my time on the floor.
Seth Adler: There you go. What did you notice from that mind-set? In other words how did it change? In other words if we're going to change the stitch fantastic you explained that from way back when. In the 90s late 90s and then about 15 years ago, what did you guys have to start doing to respond?
Peter Paluzi: The first thing that we had to do is we had to get used to smaller runs and shorter lead times.
Seth Adler: There you go.
Peter Paluzi: We talked a little bit about the manufacturer likes continuity, consistency; they wanted the same thing day in and day out. If we could, we'd still all be wearing togas, you know, because you just keep it sowing. That's not reality anymore. The first thing that happened, was we saw smaller runs, we saw more colors, we saw more options, we saw a quicker turn-time. I mean if you look at some of the fast fashions that's in the market place now, they've taken it to the extreme. I mean everybody talks about ZARA and turning product in matter of days, that's the extreme of a tidal wave that started 20 years ago. That tidal wave was, we're going by what we want, when we want.
Being the guy on the floor, I was looking and saying, "Can't they just make up their mind? What do you want?" What we've had to do to react to that in manufacturing and I come out of the denim business specifically, what we had to do in the reaction to that in manufacturing floor, was hold off as many decisions as possible to as late as possible. What do you need me to cut? Because I'm six weeks from shipping, what sizes do you need? I'm two weeks from shipping, what colors do you want me to wash them in? Then you're one day from shipping, where do you want me to ship these? You're seeing the same, if you've been sitting through these presentations here, you're seeing that same mindset going through. You have to set yourself up for a responsive supply chain, so the decisions that set your course can be made as late as possible.
Seth Adler: That brings us to today, and you use ZARA as an example I'll keep it and Carhartt the consumer, not the same person probably.
Peter Paluzi: No.
Seth Adler: But the passion in each of those consumers would be absolutely at the same height if you will. What are you doing now to that? You explained the iteration and the change and that kind of what do I have to do right now? When you go back to the shop floor, this afternoon, what are the first three things that you're going to be thinking about and that you're going to be doing in today's world?
Peter Paluzi: Well, I had put a slide up there and I put the slide up there, it was one that I stole from Temkin International if you remember. It really talked about how fast the world is moving and are we keeping up with it? You ask me, what are we doing? We do have different consumers, but that's just what product they're buying. As consumers, they're the same. I mean they're still-
Seth Adler: Same mindset.
Peter Paluzi: Same mindset, highly mobile. They're highly mobile and mobile I like to say because there's no one place they shop. They move around quite quickly, they live in multiple cities. If you recall the slide and I apologize for stumbling over it, but if you recall the slide, we're talking about a connectivity from the consumer all the way back to the supply chain. What is the first thing I want to do? What I'm doing now is trying to figure out how to get that seamless connectivity from what the sales force is seeing, what we're seeing on the floor, all the way back to the product we buy at the manufacture. The world in manufacturing is getting longer and more complicated. We're in places as an industry in Egypt and South Africa and even though I'm not personally manufacturing there, you're seeing the world expand and become more complicated. We still have to have the connectivity.
Number one full connectivity to the front end. Not the separation of what do you ... Make up your mind so I can do it, but what do I got to do to be along for the journey. The second thing is really strengthen or equally important is really strengthen the alliance. It is a combination with your suppliers, symbiotic, may be the right word for it. Our suppliers have a vested interest in seeing us succeed. A sophisticated supply chain recognizes the fact that this is not an arms length's transaction. This is not a purchase order that's fulfilled, this is a joint venture in order to get product that's going to make us both successful, that's how it's setup. Building a strong supply chain that's responsive continues to be very important.
Then third is the resources, the people. We ... I continue to advocate for strong resources and the people that understand the market and aren't just about manufacturing. I grew up in the era when manufacturing got me the job, but this generation what gets them the job is understanding the full spectrum, they understand the business, they understand the margin, they understand the consumer, they understand the manufacturing, so a strong resource base that's well educated and the market itself.
Seth Adler: How difficult has it been? You seem like a pretty friendly guy so I would imagine it was easier for you than others, but we've opened up by saying I'm happy here in my silo and we're finishing by saying there are no silos.
Peter Paluzi: There are no silos.
Seth Adler: As far as how difficult it was to completely change your entire mind-set over the past, you know, I think you said 30 years.
Peter Paluzi: 30 years thank you, you want to point that out?
Seth Adler: Don't look at ... It doesn't look a day over six months. How difficult was that to bridge the divide for your own kind of, it happened, we've just explained how it happened, but for your internal mindset, how difficult was that to kind of tackle?
Peter Paluzi: I enjoy, you know, I don't know how gregarious or outgoing I am. I'd have to look at my profile.
Seth Adler: It's not bad.
Peter Paluzi: I am a manufacturing guy. I'm used to more of that controlled pace. One of the things that I've enjoyed and one of the cornerstones of my career, has been I've always looked for ways to make myself relevant. I've been through a lot of companies, I worked with a lot of people, I've had a lot of demands, I've had a lot of mentorship, but one thing that I recognize that and anyone in their career, and this advice that I would give my son as well as people getting ready to retire, you better be getting ways to keep yourself relevant because this world changes so fast. What got you the job won't keep you the job, you've heard that out?
Seth Adler: Absolutely.
Peter Paluzi: I've always looked for ways to get relevant. I recognized with Jockey and Hanesbrands and L.L.Bean as far back as that, that these guys here they have a need, they want this group, these sales people, the merchandisers, the men and women that are in the front end of the business, they want a partnership with supply chain, they want to understand it. I took the opportunity to learn from them and also insert myself into it and I'm still trying.
Seth Adler: There you go.
Peter Paluzi: It's still a challenge right?
Seth Adler: Absolutely. If everybody is the customer right?
Peter Paluzi: Right, if everybody is the customer, internal customers, external customers, consumers.
Seth Adler: The whole bit. All right so I got three final questions, I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask them in order. What has most surprised you in work? What has most surprised you in life? Then on the soundtrack of your life, one track one song that's got to be on there?
Peter Paluzi: All right.
Seth Adler: First things first, what has most surprised you in work? You might have touched on this, but-
Peter Paluzi: Well, what surprised me in work, I am amazed and I continue to be amazed with the intelligence and the enthusiasm and the maturity of the workforce that's coming in. Now, I'm a boomer, I'm second boomer and so I'm sort of what they call the sunset of the career, is that what they call it?
Seth Adler: I was going to say old people, but no that's not what you meant.
Peter Paluzi: You can say that.
Seth Adler: What is it the-
Peter Paluzi: You can say it, I won't hit you with this mic.
Seth Adler: Right exactly, no July October romance or something to that effect.
Peter Paluzi: I wouldn't go that far but okay. I look at the young force, the workforce that's coming in and I see just how mature they are. I think from what surprised me at work is, we have a really talented group coming in to the workforce. I'm excited about where we're going. I mean they know so much more than I did at that age.
Seth Adler: Likewise.
Peter Paluzi: They have their priorities right. I'm excited about that.
Seth Adler: As far as the work-life balance and all that.
Peter Paluzi: Work-life balance, a respectful generation, they are much more sensitive to the environment and the importance of ... I'm not dissing my generation at all, but now that I look back on it, I have a couple of millennials of my own. I have two boys that are the millennial age. They have a much ... They're much more in tune with the global issues that are taking place.
Seth Adler: I was ... I kidded you about boomers and age and all that because that's what I do with my father who's 71.
Peter Paluzi: Okay thank you.
Seth Adler: I love to just call him old and see what his reaction is.
Peter Paluzi: He's going to slap you up alongside the head.
Seth Adler: My God yeah.
Peter Paluzi: I know what his reaction is going=
Seth Adler: My God yeah, absolutely. Well, because for me who I'm 41, 71 used to be really old, it's not that old anymore.
Peter Paluzi: It's still ... I still feel every bit of my age so-
Seth Adler: There you go, it adds up is what you're saying. What has surprised you in life to that end?
Peter Paluzi: What has most surprised me in life? I have come to a realization, this sounds deeper than it truly is, but these are quick questions right?
Seth Adler: Absolutely.
Peter Paluzi: I have come to the realization that you have to enjoy every stage in life that you're in. That sounds a little bit more metaphysical than I meant for it to be. My wife and I, my wife is here at this conference with us, and we're empty nesters. We live in downtown Detroit and we enjoy walking around and seeing the city and having dinner in different places and going to the theater at the last minute, and as much as we enjoyed having kids there we look in and say, every part of our life we enjoyed. When the kids were small we lived in the southwest, very similar environment and did a lot of outdoor activities. I think I've learned or what surprised me in my life is that, there's not an age in which its over. It just start, keep transitioning and I'm looking forward to the next transition because when I was your age and when I was my son's age I was going, God, what's life after 40?
Seth Adler: I've certainly stopped thinking about that because I'm experiencing it.
Peter Paluzi: It's life after 40 it usually doesn't involve staying up till 2 a.m.
Seth Adler: Definitely not, I was just joking about the fact, my big plan last night was to walk back to my room, which is about an eight minute walk but it was raining, but I didn't even get that. That was the big plan for the night, not going to the club or anything like that.
Peter Paluzi: That's ... That was ours, we walked over to ... Had a great time at Applebee's, in bed by eight.
Seth Adler: There you go.
Peter Paluzi: We were living the high life.
Seth Adler: All right soundtrack time, on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on it.
Peter Paluzi: I don't know if I could do it now, but I'll tell you I'm getting into Wild World, there're some new mixes on Wild World, I encourage you get on Spotify and listen to it.
Seth Adler: There you go.
Peter Paluzi: I would say some of the old Pete Townshend with the-
Seth Adler: With The Who.
Peter Paluzi: With The Who, you know, Teenage Wasteland.
Seth Adler: Baba O'Riley of course.
Peter Paluzi: I think I've kind of, I think I have kind of outgrown that now. Interestingly enough I really enjoy Twenty One Pilots. You listen Twenty One Pilots-
Seth Adler: Look at you, you got new stuff going on.
Peter Paluzi: Heathens, I mean how can you go with it ... You know Spotify has opened up the world.
Seth Adler: It has that's exactly right.
Peter Paluzi: I hear it's piped in, when I get in the car and turn on the radio, it pipes it right in and listen to Alt Nation and try and stay relevant and every time I throw one out my kids just roll their eyes and go come on dad please, don't even try.
Seth Adler: It's brand new for you it's like 10 years old for them or whatever.
Peter Paluzi: Exactly.
Seth Adler: A pleasure sir.
Peter Paluzi: It was a pleasure speaking with you too.
Seth Adler: There you have Peter Paluzi. Really lifetime spent as a manufacturer and really very interesting to understand the ebbs and flows of where the power was and is. Thanks to Peter, thanks to you, stay tuned.